| |||
As usual no question about asking how the day went along.. full funfilled.. although noone should ve doubts about it.. only a few went to attend the sick labs.. he he.. well it was only the girls.. although all others had a good field day out there.. comin to the ragging part.. we identified one junior and called him into the ragging space which v allegedly call it.. and asked him about the brief introduction of himself.. he started off
junior: Hi, my name is hmm palav kumar, i m from chandigarh, i m here studyin in msec in ec branch first yr,
harish: okay tel me who is ur fav hero
j: shah rukh khan
h: stupid fellow.. u shud b sayin my fav hero is mahatma gandhi.
j: okay
h: who is ur role model.
j: i don ve one..
h: stupid fellow.. u shud b sayin ur father.
j: k sir..
h: whos ur fav heroin.
j: silent
h: ur shud b sayin jhansi ki rani..
j: s sir.
h: wht u want to become in life..
j:pilot
h: aiy.. u shud b sayin i wnt to become pm
j: s sir..
he ws made to repeat all this stuff once again..lmao..it was very funny..
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
Guys i have made certain changes to the blog. like adding some stuff and all also now on i ll keep constantly updating all these things and also m expecting you guys to do the same.. Also pls keep suggesting or keep updating the mechmilitia..
Mechmilitia is starving for some great makeover by great artistes around us..
Regards
Mechmilitia
I have been thinkin of doin such a thing lately and have been discussing with few friends about this. But purshi has done it eh.. Well i feel proud to be a part of this group.. Things are spontaneous and funfilling over here.. there is a huge amount of understanding co-operation and opportunity in and around here.. I take an opportunity to thank you all for bein here with me..
Three cheers for MechMilitia...
Regards
Kalivd
hey m waitin for every one........
My hearty WELCOME for my lovely frnd's .............................
.jpg)
.jpg)
hey guys welcome to our blog to every one.....................
World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
This six-seater tax, which should be available in
Barring any last-minute design changes on the way to production, the Air Car should be surprisingly practical. The $12,700 CityCAT, one of a handful of planned Air Car models, can hit 68 mph and has a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor
units; MDI says it should cost around $2 to fill the car’s carbon-fiber tanks with 340 liters of air at 4350 psi. Drivers also will be able to plug into the electrical grid and use the car’s built-in compressor to refill the tanks in about 4 hours.
Of course, the Air Car will likely never hit American shores, especially considering its all-glue construction. But that doesn’t mean the major automakers can write it off as a bizarre Indian experiment — MDI has signed deals to bring its design to 12 more countries, including
RELATED STORIES
• UPDATE: Air Car Coming to U.S.—With 1000-Mile Range?
• DRIVE GREEN: Alt-Fuel News, Drives, Videos & More
Latest 100 comments displayed.
Retrieving comments...
923. By the way tell you fiend to quit dreaming
#921 Tell your friend to quit dreaming about this car. He should not get involved in anything he does not understand, that is how people lose money to scammers. He need to realize that he is waiting for something that will never come. 9 years of promises and never a car able to drive more than a few miles, get real, know when you are being lied to. If it was viable they would not be always short of cash,a bank would lend what they need if scientific knowledge backed what they claim.
922. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
#921 before you waste time waiting for this car, get this through your head, "this car can not perform as they claim. None of the claims they have made have ever been proven or demonstrated." Your air compressor will never develop the pressure needed anyway. Regardless of that, just imagine that you will waste 80% on the energy used to fill an air tank due to the energy lost as heat and friction. Learn about thermodynamics and energy and you will see this car is a scam. The air stored in a tank of that size will only power a circular saw for 8 minutes and 40 seconds, how far do you think a car can go on that much energy? MDI uses the fact that most people have no real knowledge of science and make claims that are impossible. What good can come from wasting 80% of the input energy? If you do not understand science, find someone who does and let them enlighten you. MDI thrives in the ignorance of the public. Look on their website, now they are promoting a ridiculous egg-shaped vehicle that weighs less than 500 lbs because they know they can not make a car that can perform well enough to drive on the roads. Yes, this new vehicle is not able to be licensed on the road, does that tell you anything? It also develops less than 5 hp, where are you going to drive that? A golf course, your retirement community sidewalk? Buy an electric form Nissan, they will actually come to market, unlike this scam.
921. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Could I use my air compressor that I own for construction projects to fill the tank? I am about to purchase a car and I am holding off for this car. When available in
920. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
ofcourse this can be worked out..but all you here is not true.compressed air can be used to run an engine but the power output is too low.people must also see that if ambient air can produce this much energy then what was the need of using petrol or diesel??? also if air can be compressed then the compressor must be either caried with the vehicle(which'l make the vehicle bulky),or as said refilling stations must be there,bu how long can someone give such stations which consume much power to operate..i think all of it's a rumour. eventhough it can be applied in city driving for short distances.
919. Technology is accepted on its merits
Technology will make it to market based upon its own merits, this technology has gone nowhere because it has no merits. If it was a viable technology, somebody somewhere on Earth would be exploiting it right now. To blame gas/oil for the fact that this idiotic technology goes nowhere is ridiculous. There is no conspiracy that can supress technology across the entire Earth, think about it, what if
918. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
LEGACY SYSTEMS DO NOT GO DOWN NICELY---there are gazillions of DOLLARS invested in gas/ oil technology--those Cash Cows are not going away with out fight --mostly behind the scenes.. I would be surprised if this technology EVER GETS TO MARKET!!!!
917. Well it is summer 2009, where are the cars?
Well folks, it is summer 2009 and there is not any evidence that the cars are in production in
916. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Just put an electric motor in it. What a waste of time. An electric motor would easily push a full weight compact, not a wooden car.
915. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
In response to #914, glued construction is not the problem, it's just but one symptom of the problem...the scam of the air car.If you take any time at all to read previous posts it should become aparent that this whole idea is a SCAM!. This a technically unfeasable proposition and given any sort of business or economic analysis, it fails miserably in those evaluations as well.
914. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Website: Popular Mechanics
If it is still legal to have cars constructed of wood and operated on the roads of the U.S.A. then why not a car glued together, shoot they have the heat shield of the space shuttle (ceramic) tiles glued on and they come into the atmosphere at 25 times, or some such speed without coming off. What is the problem.
913. No free energy
Poster #911, think about what you just proposed, if you need energy to move a vehicle and energy is lost when you compress air to fill the tanks,where do you think the energy will come from to power a compressor to refill the tanks? Every bit of energy taken out of a system decreases the amount of work a system can do. So when you lose 80% of the energy when you compress air to fill the tank, and instead of powering the vehicle you use the 20% left to compress more air, you will have only 4% of the original amount of energy in the second tank of air: (.2)(.2)=.04 and that is when you use none of the energy to power the car. There is no free energy, only men who lie about what can be done with energy and are more than happy to take your money and live the good life at your expense.
912. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
RE: 911. What source of energy do you propose to power the onboard compressor?
911. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Website: N/A
Why do have to refuel the air car when you can install a onboard compressor that will keep the tanks full as the car moves
910. Air car goes nowhere
909 Do not hold your breath, in fact read up on thermodynamics and learn about energy. Once you educate yourself you will find the air car less interesting as a vehicle and more interesting as a fraud to be watched.
909. Write your Congressman - Repeal those damn laws
# 909...I believe the only obstacles to this car being able to operate in a manner that would make it a substitute for what we currently drive are the laws of thermodynamics. I believe they are trying to get those laws repealed, write your Congressman.
908. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I would like to investigate the possibility of opening an MDI sales center in
907. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
It's not hard to pick the Nintendo generation under 25 from the guys who have been around a little longer and seen a few things for themselves. This aircar is all hot air, ( pardon the pun !) They are using compressed air as a medium between electricity and the wheels of the car, the losses are enormous and a better way would simply be to use the electricity in batteries to drive an electric car. Learn something about physics you Gen y's before you mouth off about something you patently know nothing about.
906. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
In response to comment 880. The term 'Yanks' doesn't mean anything to Americans. Your use of the term Yanks just demonstrates your ignorance concerning the U.S. GM is failing because of poor management and U.S. Government regulations that force
905. MDI lies about production dates and just about everything else, and you expect their performance claims to be true?
If the claims were true, they would have started producing an air car in
904. Fool are everywhere, some even have money
Who says you need verifiable results to attract investors? All you need is a fool with money, who believes the claims made concerning a subject that they do not understand. So far MDI has not ever proven any of their performance claims and still found some gullible people. Why do you think they rely on individual investors? The reason is that venture capital funds and banks have experts that will objectively and scientifically analyze a concept, they find out it is nonsense and they say "no way,not with our money".
903. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I believe the
902. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Let's all keep our shirts on and see what the real world results are. You nay sayers may have to eat some crow if the mfgr's claims are true. They must have some verifyable test results in order to attract investors.
901. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
i agree, they're all consumed by greed.
900. No hope for air car
899. The size of a tank that would enable an air-powered car to have a decent range would be prohibitive in a vehicle. The 340 liter tank (about 80 gallons) would only power a vehicle for a few miles. Can you imagine a car with a 400 gallon tank(good for running a car less than 30 miles)? In addition there is all of this talk of carbon fiber tanks with no talk of the cost, carbon fiber is notoriously expensive. Lots of talk from MDI, nothing to sell but dreams, that will turn into nightmares once the investors realize they have been taken.
899. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I think a few posters here seem to have closed minds. Tata Motors,
898. never fill up your tank again?
Post #897 Poster #897 seems to be on the prowl for gullible folks to give him money. What he claims is even more ridiculous than what MDI claims. Perpetual motion exists only in the minds of scam artists, sorry to label you. Either you are a scam artist or you obtained a very low quality education in school.
897. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I have plans for an electric/air car and the air storage tank only needs to be filled in the beginning. Never again! I have used compressed air to operate machinery in the past and this idea occurred to me back thenIt's nothing new, just an arrangement of equipment that exists today. No need to invent anything new! I need investors to get a working model built.
896. Bird brains will power future cars
#889 That is a very uneducated statement you make saying that I should stay off of this site because I say air is a very poor energy storage medium. If you start with X amount of energy an you would like to store that energy as compressed air, you will have less than .2X remaining after compressing the air to the pressures claimed by MDI. Tell me on what planet is the loss of 80% of the input energy considered "Good"?. It is always best to understand the subject before speaking about it. As to the fact that accomplishments were made in completely different fields of technology, those attempts at arguments are found all over the perpetual motion and free energy sites. If you have no real facts to support your argument, then pick a totally unrelated technology and say "see people said it would not work", and then look it did work." Well if that is your logic, I say, "we will power our cars by the brain waves of parakeets", and do not tell me it is not possible, because if we can put man on the moon and launch 100% accurate missiles then we can power cars by the brain waves of parakeets. Now, look what that statement of yours leads to, an unlimited source of energy, just raise bird food and we will be okay.
895. Sense of proportion
# 889 Are you able to understand the large volumes of air necessary to power a wind turbine? To use the comparison that since air can be used to create energy, therefore air can power a vehicle is to be completely without a sense of proportion. Just as the previous poster said, water can be used to create electricity, does that mean it can power a car? I know how that must work, you would have a water tower in each car and as the water is let out of the tower it could turn a turbine connected to a series of gears, to power the car. The water car sounds inefficient and probably would not go very far. But to a person with knowledge of the physical constraints of those power sources, each seems just as likely and practical.
894. Use bricks to power your car.
To the people who attempt to construct an argument by saying, "that since we have accomplished many things that were never thought possible, therefore anything is possible if you put your mind to it." The problem with that argument is that of course we all know of the accomplishments, but who knows how many ideas never materialized? When it comes to the point that proponents of an idea need to use such ridiculous arguments instead of scientific proof, you can be well aware there is not any scientific basis for the concept working. You can use bricks to power a car also, but it will not be practical, it will waste energy and it will be inconvenient, and it will not ever be accepted by the public. If you have a large truck full of bricks riding alongside your car and it constantly feeds bricks into buckets arranged in a large circle similar to a Ferris Wheel. The weight of the bricks will cause the wheel to turn as gravity acts upon the bricks, the wheel will turn, which will cause a gear to turn which will be attached to a transmission to power the car. Sure energy is wasted by the truck that drives alongside the car to feed it the bricks, to me this is no different than using electricity to compress air, that must be cooled before it can be used to fill an air tank. Then as you use the air its temperature drops since the air that was compressed is allowed to expand which has a cooling effect on the air, so that it never realizes its full potential. You have energy losses of over 80% due to the loss of energy due to the heat generated during compressing air and then as it is allowed to expand and do work you experience losses again, this is in addition to the normal losses due to friction during the operation of air engine. To an person educated in thermodynamics the air car concept is just as convoluted as one powered by bricks, wasteful and needlessly complicated with no benefit except to the ones who sell licenses to investors. Bernie Madoff would be proud of MDI.
893. Not all is possible #889
#889 Your attempt at logic by saying that since we accomplished those items you referred to, then therefore the air car is possible, is completely devoid of logic. To say that an air car can be used to replace current transportation since men have walked on the moon is what scam artists revert to when they have no scientific basis for what they claim. The internet is full of that sort of faulty argument by the proponents of free energy, perpetual motion, and other power generating schemes that have no basis in science, their only hope is in appealing to the uneducated who might have cash to spend on one of their scams.
892. Run a car on water?
Hydroelectric power is derived from the energy in running water, that does not mean that you can run a vehicle on water. Just because you can derive energy from wind does not mean you can use air to power a car successfully. Sure air can move a vehicle, just as burning wood to create steam can power an automobile, it comes down to whether it is efficient, reliable and convenient. Air will never replace vehicles currently used, they are not able to perform in a manner that would make it suitable for everyday use due to the low energy content of compressed air and the massive energy losses during compression, it wastes too much energy.
891. Not everything is possible
#889 There are some things that just will not work no matter how hard you try. To claim that anything is possible is to have a poor understanding of science. A certain amount of energy can only do a certain amount of work. The size of a tank large enough to power the air car reasonable distance would be prohibitive. MDI made a claim to start production in 2001, then again in 2002 and almost every year after that, check the internet. Would you invest in a company that constantly lies? Look at the vehicle that MDI is currently touting on their website, less than 500 lbs and less than 5 hp, and that is 8 years after they claimed to have the technology to produce taxis in
890. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
In response to post 889.Most physical relationships relating to gasses, liquids, work , energy, force, mass etc are well established and understood. The biggest problem in this dicussion is the alarming number of people who are ignorant of these basic relationships (physical laws). Engineers and scientists understand these ideas and the limits of what is possible and what is not given a particular technology and the constraints of the physics associated with said technology.Compressed air for portable, motive applications is NOT a good source of energy. It has very specific application driven things that is is good for, motion control and air tools are two which come to mind. Given the poor volumetric efficiency of air motors, using air to propel an automobile, or any other vehicle is laughable. As to windmills...if they could actually operate without government subsidies then maybe an argument could be made for their economic viability. Also, EVERYTHING is about money and economics,any statement to the contrary is childish and miserably misinformed.
889. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I'v read the posts and agree that MDI might not have a good rep but that isn't a good enough reason to discredit them and the things they are trying to do. As far a it being impossible after 150 years of trying is one of the most ignorant statments I have ever heard. Technology is constantly chaninging. Look, If we can put a man on the moon, launch missles that are 100% accurate, transmit internet connections from outerspace, and grow human parts from stem cells, then there is no reason why we can't make this work. I agree with the 13 year old kid about the older generation doing all the damage and being the first ones to discredit someone who is trying to solve the problems. With out dreams and ideas, we wouldn't be where we are now! There has always been a group of people who feard change and said things would never work. But as history shows, we can achieve anything we put our minds to. I read earlier that air is not a good source of energy. Who ever made that comment should just stay off sites like this. Air is the thing that will save the world. Windmills now make up around 7% of the worlds power, and that number has really just started to grow. Instead of the human population being a parasite to the world, we should change our attitudes and become healers of the world. This is the only thing that matters anymore. The old ways were always about money. Now days, the youth doesn't care about the money, we want our planet back! After all it is our generation that pushes all the issues. I will sign off with this statment that my grandmother told me when I was 13 and that has always stuck with me. " Keep doing what you are doing and you will keep getting whay you've got!"
888. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
It takes X amount of energy to move X amount of weight X distance. Finding a cheaper, cleaner source of energy is the answer. That technology has yet to be discovered. When it is, governments will surely tax it up to the level of other fuels in order to protect those markets.
887. Good luck with your air car
#885 It would be wise to learn something about energy if you think that you can run a compressor of the engine to refill the tanks if that is what you are proposing by having a compressor in the system. Also air powered vehicles have been tried for the last 150 years. There will never be a practical air powered vehicle that can replace even a compact car. Air is a very poor energy storage medium, the losses during compression are huge. Before you waste your time, get an education in the physical laws of the universe, not the false promises of a fantasy world in which Mr. Negre and MDI live. Good luck finding a tank large enough to hold enough air to power a decent sized vehicle. Look at the current power claims from MDI, less than 5 hp, that is enough to power that little egg shaped vehicle, that is what they are now proposing, as a real road worthy car is out of the question due to its energy demands. If the air car held any promise whatsoever the promoters would not need to rely on small investors for funds, they would get any loan they needed from banks or venture capital funds. The problem with getting loans is that banks and venture capital firms are not foolish enough to lend or invest in the lies of a scam artist making impossible claims.
886. Is it on roads yet? it's 2009
Anybody driving this in
885. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Why is it so complicated design? it should be that hard to make an engine run on air. And the very first air engine design for a car was in 1973. Fairly easy design. 4-8 pistons. Hell any one can make one just need material. piston head,connecting rod, off set valve and there you go an easy design and it works.... So the claim as of the first air car is false. It is the first production thought car but not the first air powered design. How hard would it have been to hook up a compressor that work while the car is run down the street? Not hard considering the fact that it could run off a pulley. Hell the only thing you have to know is basic engine design and there you go air powered engine. I am building one to just prove that any dumbass can whip one together that work much more efficient and have more power, I hope to be done with it by the end of summer of 2009 and will be posted on Youtube so yeah. World industries are lazy and greedy that is why no one has made one that is "practical" yet. If you have about $200 then you can build one. Now to the RE 880 guy, no one care for GM anymore so get over it.
884. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Please explain to me why MDI is planning to sell the Air Car in the
883. Failed at Formula One - Mr. Negre never had a car qualify for a race
Poster #880 Mr. Negre was a failed Formula one engine designer. His cars never made it into a race. Learn the facts, it always helps to know a little bit about the subject you write about. Negre is a skillful scammer who uses the media as a source of exposure to lure uninformed "want to be" capitalist dreamers into his convoluted world of lies and promises.
882. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
880 Post, I think you offer us all a far better understanding as to why MDI Markets the Air Car. Physics and Facts of all kinds will never discourage those who want to believe in magic. This one article and the comments posted here should be worth 15 credits towards a degree in Psychology. Thank You Popular Mechanics!
881. Post 880 learn the facts
This "Formula 1 engineer" never had a car of his qualify for a race. Learn the history of Mr. Negre before acting as if he has some special knowledge. In fact much of what the company has claimed over the years has been never proven and were outright lies. None of their claims for the performance of the air car have ever been proven, in fact they are impossible, and will never travel the distances claimed with the air tank of the size they claim. In tests the vehicle traveled less than 5 miles and they use that test to claim a future range of 125 miles, with unsound extrapolations used to put forth that claim. It is always wise to learn the underlying science behind a technology before praising it. The energy lost when you compress air is enormous, it is much better to charge batteries with electricity than to run a compressor and compress air and then expand the air to power a vehicle. The laws of thermodynamics prohibit the air cars from ever being able to perform on a level that would make them a replacement for current vehicles, there is too much energy lost. They claimed to be able to travel 125 miles on $2.00 of electricity, that is equivalent to 20 kilowatt hours at average cost. There is not a vehicle capable of traveling that distance with that little energy and still be roadworthy. In fact once you subtract the energy lost during the compression of the air what you have left would be about enough for a round of golf. The air car concept is geared to appeal to the uneducated who have money to invest in the purchase of a license to open a factory, the media unwittingly is used to obtain free advertising to those ends. If a company was ready to produce a vehicle in 2001 why have we not seen it yet? Could it be that they lied? Yes they did. Did they also lie in 2002 when they claimed to be starting production in
880. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Some of you really are as blind as bats aren't you! an ex Formula 1 Engineer (the most technologically advanced racing in the WORLD) comes along and gives us all what we've been desperate for and all you can say is if it's so good why didn't gm do it? WHAT YOU SHOULD BE ASKING IS WHY HAS GM GONE DOWN! Because the Yanks never listen! We have the answers so come back to the real world! No it doesn't make a big loud noise No it isn't enormous, but that's because we're not trying to make up for a lack in any other department!! Get over yourselves and start doing something for the rest of the world and it's kids!
879. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Website: utterpower.com
The fundemental knowledge of what happens when you compress a gas causes one to ask. Are there any people left on the planet with any critical thinking skills? What a scam! Those who believe in a free lunch in finance are usually the same people who believe in a free lunch in energy as well.
878. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
have a large truck which burns 200 lits per day. Have also a farm at edge of atlantic with huge wind resourse. I would love to use this wind energy to fuel my truck.
877. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
This technology sounds great. But if it was true, surely automakers would be falling over themselves to sell a car that can deliver the claims made by MDI. There is no vested interest in oil on the part of automakers, they only want it to be cheap, so it is affordable to own a car. If this technology was bona-fide, automakers would adopt it, as consumers are always looking for cheaper transport. Unfortunately, even if such energy COULD be stored as compressed air, the energy lost through compression makes it quite inefficient. Just use the electricity to run a motor, and cut out the stuffing around with compressors.
876. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Website: popularmechanics.com
Thank God time has come for green car,i hope the earth live in green and peace.
875. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I work at a hoist manufaturer, with small horsepower and the right gearing we lift tons! Our air hoists do not require thousands of pounds of pressure. First lose the pistons go with vanes,check valves allow small compressors to create pressure. Air volume tanks could be installed in existing service stations.Use for people moving,frieght could still be moved the same at this time, and still greatly reducing emmisions. It could be done,gear for torque,last gear for speed basic stuff!
874. Air car is full of false promises
#872 The air for the air car is generated by ELECTRIC, air compressors. Energy is lost when you compress air, the air car will use more electricity for a given distance than an electric car, due to the energy lost during compression. Somehow MDI has people ignoring the losses inherent in an air powered car, they do this by overstating the range of the vehicles, and understating the energy used in compressing the air. It will serve you well to learn the difference between a claim and a fact. An air car has never traveled more than 5 miles in tests, and from understanding of physics I realize that an air car will never perform at a level to replace current vehicles, golf carts maybe roadworthy vehicles...doubt it, it is just not happening. Non stop across country?, do not fall for their lies
873. Air car is full of false promises
#872 The air for the air car is generated by ELECTRIC, air compressors. Energy is lost when you compress air, the air car will use more electricity for a given distance than an electric car, due to the energy lost during compression. Somehow MDI has people ignoring the losses inherent in an air powered car, they do this by overstating the range of the vehicles, and understating the energy used in compressing the air. It will serve you well to learn the difference between a claim and a fact. An air car has never traveled more than 5 miles in tests, and from understanding of physics I realize that an air car will never perform at a level to replace current vehicles, golf carts maybe roadworthy vehicles...doubt it, it is just not happening. Non stop across country?, do not fall for their lies
872. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I agree, that the
871. Air car fraud
MDI, the company that sells licenses to manufacture the air car is in the business of issuing press releases and obtaining investors. If you look at the past history of MDI you will see that all that they managed to accomplish over the last 15 years is obtaining free advertisement for the air car from media that love a sensational story. If those in the media bothered to look into the claims by MDI and had them reviewed by a person knowledgeable in the field of thermodynamics, it would be apparent that the claims are not credible. There are limits to what is possible with a specific amount of energy, MDI fraudulently claims performance figures well beyond the limits. The media does a great disservice to their readers and viewers by accepting the press releases and claims from MDI without question. A review of the history of MDI, starting with the credentials of Mr Negre will make it quite apparent the company claims whatever is necessary to hype itself, and garner free publicity to entice new investors. There will be many disappointed investors, that should have elicited independent review of what was claimed, they will learn a lesson and MDI will, by virtue of the language in their contracts laugh all the way to the bank. The greed of the investors in pursuit of riches will be their downfall.
870. Never been proven to work as claimed so there is no need to stop it.
868 There is no need for a conspiracy to buy up rights to the car and keep it from production. The aircar never makes it to production because of the laws of thermodynamics. You will not be able to produce an air car of the size and performance necessary to replace the internal combustion. None of the claims made by MDI has been proven with regards to performance and range, they are in business to sell licenses to an unproven technology. If you would read their information offered to investors it says that they make no claim as to the capabilities of the air car, you are in effect investing in an unproven dream. Knowledge of science will kill an investors passion for the air car, if you do the research and understand energy, you will never invest in the air car, uneducated fools do.
869. Tata Didn't Buy Rights to Kill the Air Car
#868 -- Your theory doesn't make sense. MDI has said that the $30M that Tata paid for manufacturing rights (in
868. WHY HASN'T ANYONE THOUGHT OF THIS...
that the technology / the rights for this technology has been bought up by a leading petrol / diesel car manufacturer only to keep it off the streets by just not manufacturing them - while giving reasons like, ".. nascent stage / not ready for production, etc." And that there is no apparent intention on Tata's part to bring this out in the near future. Most vehicle manufacturers know very well that alternative technology concepts (I am not going into whether a specific technology will work or not, since I am not qualified enough to comment on that) will spell doom to their existing product line. It is a well known fact that the lobbying of the petrol / diesel automobile manufacturers in many countries has been so strong that they have been successful in preventing electric vehicles from being launched. Any thoughts on this?
867. "Next Summer" was 9 months ago. Where is it!??!!!!!
The "next summer" production release date of this July 2007 article refers to was Summer 2008. No air cars have been produced. MDI still doesn't let any independent journalists do a road test of their prototypes. MDI/ZPM still claim incredible performance while never delivering. Tata Motors remains silent other than to say "MDI technology is nascent and nto ready for production". But Popular Mechanics has this week published yet another postitive article about Air Cars. At some point promises aren't enough.
866. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
How much pressure in the storage tank?? Do you know what happens when a welders K -bottle tank breaks off the top valve?? It takes off like a rocket/bomb wiping out anything or anybody in its way. I don't want to be around when one of these is in a wreck. Better choice is the Honda natural gas vehicle or a propane powered car that has been used for over 40 years. I have a propane powered 6.5 kw gen set in my motorhome and I love it. I have had friends with propane powered cars and pickups.
865. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Air powered equipment is great to operate as long as you are connected to the air source by pipe or hose. I have worked in the mines using air powered rock drills (drifters, stopers and jack hammers), Eimco mucking machine (loader) and a mine train locomotive with a large tank but short range. The mucking machine had 2 five cylinder rotary air motors that each put out about 90 hp. Maximum torque at stall and the harder you worked them the colder they got. The locomotive could be refilled at many places in the tunnels by connecting to the air line that ran from a large compressor outside the mine portal. Not cheap to run the compressor. Air motors in cars need no transmission , just run the motor backwards, need no brakes, the motor can be used as a compressor to recharge the tank and recover some of the energy like a trolley car connected to an overhead power line.
864. The truth is not on MDi affiliated websites, that is advertising
If you want the entire truth about air cars, do not waste your time on a company affiliated website. Just look at the history of MDI, the claims they made for the past 9 years, the fact none of their plans for production ever materialized, and the path they are currently taking with their vehicles. The small vehicles on their website are proof that air can not power a normal sized vehicle. MDI needs to come up with something already after lying for 9 years, so they come up with a pathetic looking "Airpod" that weighs less than 500 lbs. develops less than 6 hp. and CAN NOT be used on a roadway. If they had a vehicle that would perform as they have claimed, why not produce it? Anybody who believes a company that has lied as they do, really has no understanding of science and is just plain unable to be objective. Their only test of a somewhat normal sized car traveled less than 5 miles. You would need to drive the Oscar Mayer wiener car filled with air to get any sort of decent range in an air car. The claims by MDI are not supported by the laws of thermodynamics, fluid power system dynamics, or just plain economics. There is no roadworthy passenger vehicle that can travel 125 miles on $2.00 of electricity, that is 20 kilowatt hours average. That is another big lie of theirs, claiming to fill up for $2.00. Maybe you can fill the tank for $2.00 but you will never travel the distance they claim, that is pure bull. How can you trust a proven liar? Is it desperation or ignorance? Maybe a little of both.
863. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Hi, if you want to learn a lot about air cars, have a look at http://www.aircars.tk and find lots of information, pictures, videos, links and the latest news!
862. Learn where to find the truth
#639 One item I did learn on these forums is the inability or the laziness of the general public to do independent research to objectively analyze a scientific concept. Most of the posters here will just believe what sounds good to them, without doing what is easy research on the web. All of the information needed to properly analyze the air car is available free for the taking, but you must have at least some science background to know what to look for. People get too caught up in their own desires that they are unable to be objective, and just accept the unproven claims of MDI. None of the claims made by MDI has ever been proven, in fact they themselves demonstrated how poorly their car performs a few years back when it only traveled a few miles in tests. Of course they no longer refer to that test, as it does not fit into their web of lies. If you learn to take the claims by MDI and evaluate them as to whether they are possible, you will see that the claims are not possible with an air powered vehicle. Air is such a poor storage medium that is was eliminated for transportation uses in the end of the 1800's and early 1900's. Too much energy is used to produce an amount of air that is still not enough to do what they claim. Adding an onboard air compressor is misleading as an attempt to make the car seem more able to perform as claimed. The weight of a compressor, its cooling system and fuel will detract from the performance of the vehicle. The fuel used to power the compressor will negate any gain in range. Just look at the 10 years of lies, you can not judge a concept by their press releases, and that is where all of the information on the websites is taken from, from MDI's press releases. You need independent review to get the truth not the claims of the "inventor".
861. Air does not do the job
859 If you ran jackhammer, then you would also realize the large volumes of air necessary to power the tool. To power an automobile and get any decent range you would need a tank far larger than the one mentioned by MDI. The tank they have would give the car at best a range of 15 miles. It might be good for powering a handicap vehicle such as those carts used by the elderly, for the real world, air does not have enough energy density to replace the internal combustion engine powered vehicles.
860. More air than you can imagine
# 859 look at the air consumption of the tools you refer to. To move a vehicle the distances claimed will take much more air than the tank can hold. The vehicles can not travel the distances claimed, adding an air compressor to the car is ridiculous due to the weight and energy consumption. Air is an inefficient energy storage medium, compressors waste over 50% of input energy. Learn the science and you will view these cars as they are a scam, a well organized one but a scam nonetheless.
859. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I think the concept is great and If this is the real deal ,I would like to open up a dealership in the States. I have worked around air powered tools and know the extreme power there is in forced air. if you ever ran a jack hammer you would realize that the hammer is driven by a piston. Please let me know what we would have to do to bring this vehicle to the USA.lets do the right thing. thank You John Kajfasz
858. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
372 keep in mind the car is not a 1800 cc VW. Those engines are cars are much less efficient.
857. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
i would like to look in this car to get one.
856. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
It is not the first air car. Air powered cars preceded internal combustion engine and failed. Does this tell us anything!
855. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I do not know about the energy storage density of batteries compared with high pressure tanks. I don’t know about the efficiency of air motors. But I do know about the efficiencies of air compressors. Compressors are only good for one thing, making heat. You need to understand that the best commercially available compressors are only 10 to 12% efficient. That means that 88 to 90% of the input energy is converted directly into heat. The annual energy consumption of compressors, costs one to one and a half times the purchase cost. The high cost of operation pushes R&D for a competitive advantage. If R&D was going to find a more efficient compressor it would have. Even if you could double or triple the compressor efficiency, it is still a very inefficient system. I say this from the perspective of someone who has purchased, installed, operated and maintained over 8,000 HP of air compressors.
854. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
re: 853 I think those are called rivers, and the "cars" are known as boats? how do you propose to power this "water pipeline"? without using vast ammounts of energy,what about maintenance, is there an endless supply of water that the great lake states are willing to give away to other areas/states?Thinking outside the box is fine, the problem is things like technical feasibility, and economic constraints must be considered or its just fantasy.
853. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
If we are thinking out of the box Which PM Loves to do. My idea of a water car needs to be considered. Water pipelines from the great lakes to the dry regions of the west with water cars which ride in the water pipes to various exit ports along the way. Irrigation, and flood control solving the pressures of the roadways at zero emission levels. P.M. is to be commended for getting people thinking out of the box.
852. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I do not know about the energy storage density of batteries compared with high pressure tanks. I don’t know about the efficiency of air motors. But I do know about the efficiencies of air compressors. Compressors are only good for one thing, making heat. You need to understand that the best commercially available compressors are only 10 to 12% efficient. That means that 88 to 90% of the input energy is converted directly into heat. The annual energy consumption of compressors, costs one to one and a half times the purchase cost. The high cost of operation pushes R&D for a competitive advantage. If R&D was going to find a more efficient compressor it would have. Even if you could double or triple the compressor efficiency, it is still a very inefficient system. I say this from the perspective of someone who has purchased, installed, operated and maintained over 8,000 HP of air compressors.
851. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I do not know about the energy storage density of batteries compared with high pressure tanks. I don’t know about the efficiency of air motors. But I do know about the efficiencies of air compressors. Compressors are only good for one thing, making heat. You need to understand that the best commercially available compressors are only 10 to 12% efficient. That means that 88 to 90% of the input energy is converted directly into heat. The annual energy consumption of compressors, costs one to one and a half times the purchase cost. The high cost of operation pushes R&D for a competitive advantage. If R&D was going to find a more efficient compressor it would have. Even if you could double or triple the compressor efficiency, it is still a very inefficient system. I say this from the perspective of someone who has purchased, installed, operated and maintained over 8,000 HP of air compressors.
850. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I do not know about the energy storage density of batteries compared with high pressure tanks. I don’t know about the efficiency of air motors. But I do know about the efficiencies of air compressors. Compressors are only good for one thing, making heat. You need to understand that the best commercially available compressors are only 10 to 12% efficient. That means that 88 to 90% of the input energy is converted directly into heat. The annual energy consumption of compressors, costs one to one and a half times the purchase cost. The high cost of operation pushes R&D for a competitive advantage. If R&D was going to find a more efficient compressor it would have. Even if you could double or triple the compressor efficiency, it is still a very inefficient system. I say this from the perspective of someone who has purchased, installed, operated and maintained over 8,000 HP of air compressors.
849. "Hot air" car
The air car should be called the "Hot air" car, because that is about all we ever get from MDI, hot air. Never a demonstration or independent review, but plenty of talk.
848. Ask MDI
To the poster of 844, so you actually believe those unproven claims by MDI, You should be asking them to show you a car that can do all that, because they can not. They can talk about it, but to demonstrate it, it has never happened.
847. #844 show me an air car that can do that
Did you bother to ask MDI to show you a car that can travel 125 miles for $2.00? Well even if you did ask, I know they will not show you. that is because nobody has ever seen an air car perform as they claim. Why do you believe they exist without proof, is it like religion you have faith?
846. I believe cold hard facts not MDI
How is it that anyone can make a claim and suddenly people think it is the truth? Poster 844, did you bother to read some of the other posts? If you did you will see many reasons NOT to believe MDI's claims. The only reason to believe their claims is if you are not capable of understanding the science behind compression, storage, and use of compressed air. It is not hard to understand, you just need an open mind and some free time to research the claims. A look at the history of MDI with an emphasis on their claims is enough to not trust what they say.
845. I say it can because they say it can
844 That is a pretty silly request, because there is NOT an air car that can do that. Oh they say it can, but all the science says they can not. So you believe a company with a history of lies, who has only shown that their car can go 7.22 km, which is less than 5 miles. And you ask me for proof! They have never provided proof of their claims, but you seem to think the car exists that does as they claim. What I am saying is according to the laws of science that can not be changed, you will see an electric car travel that distance but will never see an air car do that, by the way there is not any car that can travel 125 miles on $2.00 worth of electrical energy, it is physically impossible. For $2.00 you can buy 20 kilowatt hours of electricity, after you compress the air you will be hard pressed to have in the tank the equivalent of 15 kilowatt hours, which will never, ever move a car more than a couple of miles. But you are free to be scientifically backward if you choose, but very simple calculations prove the air car promoters lie. To only use their claims in a rebuttal is like saying, "I know it can, because they say it can",or "my friend says it can" which is no proof at all.
844. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
RE:#843, show me a battery powered car that can go 125 miles on $2 of compressed air with ZERO emissions, and no battery chemical and hazardous waste and you might begin to sound as if you know what you are talking about.
843. Air is a poor energy storage medium
#842 Air is a very poor energy storage system and the energy losses to compress it are huge, the losses are a huge detriment and place air at a large disadvantage to electric cars with batteries. The advances in battery technology are progressing well, there are thermodynamic laws that stifle advances in air technology.
842. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
You don't even need a computer to check that filament wound air cylinders reach as storage similar specific energies (60-70 Wh/kg at 300 bar) like integrated Li-Ion (not lab-type!) batteries, with the substantial advantage of fast refilling in < 30 s and almost infinite cyclability. The problem lies in the air-to-shaft transformation, which must be perfectly isothermal, sorting out some shortcomings in the timing and transmission line which did not really interest the scientific establishment. The pneumatic driven mass transit systems at the eve of the 20th century operated for more than 40 years without really efficient systems but with updated technologies a breakthrough is certainly possible. Of course, the source of pneumatic power would be e.g. a compressor in the nacelles where the piping to the user would also act as energy storage. I think that with a development effort comparable to the electric car this basic problem could be solved (not only for the car application), otherwise we will run out of copper: the only high volume energy storage solution is based on air and very little R&D effort is on way.
841. The air car company has no backup not us
Poster 836 You say most of the posts have poor science backup, but you believe a company that has absolutely no backup? You say we should go to
840. Shell oil laughs at the air car
Shell and the other oil companies do not care about the air car, why? Because it is not a viable alternative to an internal combustion engine vehicles in use now. The air car concept is geared especially to those that believe anything that they read if it sounds good to them. The 10 years of lies are wearing thin, the more you know the more ridiculous the claims are, learn to evaluate ideas on your own instead of just believing what is claimed in a companies press release.
839. Sorry #836 no air cars in
#836 You are totally wrong to say that a person can see the car in
838. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Why don't you add an electric motor and use it to drive a compressor to make compressed air for the car and run a generator to make electricity for the cars as well. so the car can make it's own energy. Andrew
837. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Why is everyone so ennoyed by what something says that you don't look in the eye or know.. If you're so sure about you're own truth, why should you be so frustrated... But ok, now I feel like giving my opinion as well to let you think about something.. The issue about the patent on the car.. They don't even need that, come on if you can't think straight anymore, think of a nice movie like scarface: If you got the money you got the power.... A company like shell got so much money and so much power or onfluence or whatever you wanna call it that ideas or dreams like this won't come reality in the main stream. Why do you people think that a lot of companies are developing greener engines on the standard fuel (which shell still sells of course) in stead of developing engines like this...!!And off course Amerika is a great oil owner, with so much depts (thank you mister Bush) that they can't afford it to drop that market.
836. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
I am thinking this is real and true. But most of the comments are very poor in science back up. Instead of going to
835. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
the cost of car is so less as it runs on air,but as think there so many tax we have to pay for running it on air and also so many restrictions we have to face.
834. What, I can't buy fuel?
RE: Post 829, How does that car you are referring to, "not let any one spend a penny or a cent on gas or fuel". How does the car prevent anyone from buying gas or fuel? What is the difference between a penny and a cent? How does it "genrate" air "it self"? Will it let me spend money on other types of fuel, such as natural gas for my home? Or will the car prevent me from buying that fuel also?
833. Why the story about patents?
828 What is the reason for you to lie and say that the oil companies are trying to buy up patents? Do you just want to seem important or knowledgeable? Oil companies are full of engineers who are educated and know that the air car offers no competition to them. The engineers understand energy and know the little amount of energy contained in the tank of the air will not move the car very far. Most of the public is not educated in the subjects necessary to properly evaluate the science involved in the air car concept. Nobody in the energy business is the least bit interested in buying up patents to a "go nowhere" technology, so please, no lies. I am sorry, but Discovery channel is a media company interested in sensational subjects to get viewers, they are not a scientific authority, do you understand the difference. The engines and the cars that are used by the air car company to drive around in parking lots are not a threat to any technology at all. They have never traveled more than a few miles, what good is that?
832. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
OK, I did a back of the envelope calculation of how much work is possible from high pressure tanks. Assuming 10 cubic feet of air at 3500 psia, drag based on v of about 40 mph and 15 ft^2 of fronatl area, constant Cp, frictionless engine and ideal gas model, the car could go about 20 miles... however, in reality it might go about 10 - 15 miles.
831. Never in production
These cars were shown driving around, big deal. They never traveled more than a few miles and have never been in production. Those videos were how long? Not very long huh, learn about a subject before you act as if you know something about it. Is that all you need is a short video to convince you that it is a viable means of transportation, great you are one of the sound bite generation. Can you take the time to gain knowledge on their own, instead of being educated by TV. Going nowhere for the last 10 years, air car. Education eliminates uncertainty, allows you to form your own opinions instead of relying on others. The proof is in the failure to make it to market and never performing as they claimed. They have never produced the air car for sale, no factory exists.
830. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Not knowing the mechanics leaves me in the dark. However, if there's a spark that can fire a piston in this manner, then an air-powered generator could be built. I'm thinking of wild fires, and how propane tanks explode. A market for a non-fossil fuel generator would be substantial.
829. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
i can introduce you to a car that will not let any one spend a penny or cent on gas or feul this is some thing which genrates air by it self and runs on the air which is generated by it self want to know more call me on my no 9322183815
828. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Umm..they use these engines in
827. Untrue at any speed
I agree with #826 what is the point of outright lying about the air cars? One of the problems with the freedom of the internet is the ability of anyone to make statements that are total fabrications. There are millions of people who believe that the air car is somehow going to alleviate the inevitable shortage of petroleum, when in fact all we have is unproven claims from the "inventors". There are people who actually believe anything they read on the internet, especially if it was on a reputable site. Caution to all: the truth is out there, you need to research any claims and learn the motivations of those making the claims. Money drives many to make OUTRAGEOUS claims so as to get free publicity (advertising) by taking advantage of the media's desire for readers. If something sounds too good to be true, often it is exactly that; not true. I must laugh at Poster #825's amateur attempt to garner credibility by posting a price of $15,020.98 as if a dollar and cents price supports his STORY.
826. Your point is?
Poster#825 It is not a matter of not liking the car, the car does not exist that will perform as you say, so what is it that YOU like? Spurious claims as you and the air car company make, claims that have no basis in fact, are a real credibility loser, now you AND the air car company both lack credibility.
825. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Well i dont care what every one eles thinks. I bought this car and had it shipped to my house in the us for a grand total of 15,020.98
824. RE: World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer
Well i dont care what every one eles thinks. I bought this car and had it shipped to my house in the us for a grand total of 15,020.98
| ||
| | | |
Car that runs on compressed air
Monday, April 11, 2005 Posted: 1032 GMT (1832 HKT)
|
|
The pneumatic electrical hybrid vehicle (PHEV) runs on compressed air. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
| | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(CNN) -- A Korean company has created a car engine that runs on air.
The engine, which powers a pneumatic-hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV), works alongside an electric motor to create the power source.
The system eliminates the need for fuel, making the PHEV pollution-free.
Cheol-Seung Cho, of Energine Corporation, told CNN the system is controlled by a computer inside the car, which instructs the compressed-air engine and electric motor what to do.
The compressed air drives the pistons, which turn the vehicle's wheels.
The air is compressed using a small motor, powered by a 48-volt battery, which powers both the air compressor and the electric motor.
Once compressed, the air is stored in a tank, Cho said.
"The compressed air is used when the car needs a lot of energy, such as for starting up the car and acceleration. The electric motor comes to life once the car has gained normal cruising speed."
He said the system was relatively simple to manufacture and could be easily adapted to any conventional engine system.
"You could say our car has two hearts pumping. That is, we have separate motors running at different times, both at the time when they can perform most efficiently."
Cho also said the system could reduce the cost of vehicle production by about 20 percent, because there was no need to build a cooling system, fuel tank, spark plugs or silencers.
Cho hoped to see PHEVs on streets in the near future.
Peter Kemp, editor of "Petroleum Intelligence Weekly," told CNN that one of the biggest challenges for the invention was persuading the general public to embrace it.
"For this invention to take off, you'd need to get the backing of a major manufacturer. The major manufacturers that are looking at hybrid motors at the moment are looking at fuel cells -- battery with a gasoline diesel combination," he said.
Kemp said
"But that is over several years. There is a lot of demand for that car but that is the only one that is really available and nobody knows whether
Compressed Air Car with
Quasiturbine Pneumatic Engine
(Quasiturbine air motor)
Since the Quasiturbine is a pure expansion engine
(which the Wankel is not, neither most of other rotary engines),
it is well suitable as compressed fluid engine - Air engine or air motor.
http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTPneumatique.html
(For the steam engine, see http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTVapeur.html )
The Quasiturbine team do not generally get involve in engine integration, but here are some perspectives:
ENGINE INTEGRATION METHODOLOGY TO A MOVING FRAME
This include an example (in French)
www.quasiturbine.com/QTChassis.htm
COMPRESSED AIR GOKART (ZERO POLLUTION)
L'APUQ www.pureinvention.com/apuq conduit des travaux d'intégration pour la propulsion d'un go-kart
avec une Quasiturbine QT75SC pneumatique.
Voir détails sur leur site : www.pureinvention.com/apuq
October 28, 2004 - WORLD PREMIÈRE
APUQ GO-KART IN THE TÉLÉ-JOURNAL DE TQS-TV
Jean-Luc Mongrain meet with the reporter Jean Lajoie (in French)
Video at : http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTVideoTQS/QT-TQS.htm
COMPRESSED AIR VEHICLE
Pneumatic systems have a big advantage: they are cheap and don't require impractically expensive battery maintenance.
A 40kg 25 cubic meter compressed air cylinder the same size as
the steel types used in natural gas vehicles can store 4 kw-hr of energy.
Assuming (conservatively) that 50% can be recovered, we have a real world density of 2kw-hr/40kg = 50 watt hours per kg.
This is much better than the best lead acid lead acid batteries which can achieve 50 watt hours
only by 100% discharge: something that cuts battery life to only a dozen or so cycles.
The power to weight ratio of compressed air systems is quite high: Higher than most electric system.
***************************************
The Korean inventor energine has developed an electric & pneumatic hybrid car.
http://energine.com/eng/engine/engine1.htm
A compressed air engine can provide great torque and power for its weight
but only for a short time because not only does the air run out but the engine
(unless provided with elaborate heat exchangers)
becomes cold due to the adiabatic expansion of the air and loses efficiency.
A compressed air motor provides for powerful acceleration while not adding to system weight.
The compressed air motor and electric motor are interconnected by clutches
so that the car can recharge its air reservoir and its battery and operate separately or together as required.
***************************************
Electric-Petrol Hybrids are complex and expensive and still require exotic materials.
The air-petrol (or diesel) hybird may be a cheaper option that overcomes these limitations.
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001552.html
http://www.engineer.ucla.edu/stories/2003/hybrid.htm
http://www.engineer.ucla.edu/stories/2003/hybrid.htm
UCLA Study Suggests Air Hybrid Car Could Improve Fuel Efficiency
Air hybrid cars could bring big fuel savings for city drivers,
according to a recent study released by UCLA engineers. Experiments
based on modeling and simulations showed that the air hybrid engine
improved fuel efficiency by 64 percent in city driving and 12 percent
in highway driving. The study also suggested that by adopting the air
hybrid approach, car-makers could avoid some of the manufacturing
costs associated with the more common electric hybrid design.
The air hybrid engine design concept. Tsu-Chin Tsao, professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering at
the UCLA Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science,
and graduate student Chun Tai have been collaborating with engineers at Ford Motor Company
and consultant Michael M. Schechter for more than a year on an air hybrid vehicle design that uses a camless valvetrain.
Tai presented the team's findings at the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress in March 2003.
Like its cousin the electric hybrid, air hybrid vehicles are being explored
as a more fuel-efficient means of traveling the nation's roads, especially in urban areas,
where stop-and-go traffic leads to a wasteful use of gas.
During a typical day of city driving, fuel energy used to accelerate the vehicle is partially wasted during deceleration,
when kinetic energy is converted into heat in the friction brakes.
Fuel economy could be greatly improved, say researchers, if that braking energy could be captured,
stored and later used to help the vehicle speed up, for instance.
To make the air hybrid design work, Tsao introduced a few clever modifications to a traditional 2.5 liter V6 engine,
including a valve design that allows the engine to not only burn fuel more efficiently,
but to compress and expand air captured during braking as well.
When it is compressed, air can store energy that is neither toxic nor explosive.
Once the air is expanded, the burst of energy that is released can be used to help accelerate the car.
The concept is closely tied to that of electric hybrid vehicles,
which are becoming an increasingly well-known alternative to traditional automobiles
and have already proven capable of reusing braking energy.
While still fuelled by gasoline, the electric hybrid vehicle's engine and transmission combination is augmented
by an energy conversion and storage system housed in a black box under the car's hood.
This collection of sophisticated electronic components captures brake energy,
stores it as electricity and then releases it when it is needed.
The additional hardware required to make it work includes a battery and a supplemental electric motor,
which adds weight to the car and drives up costs.
Manufacturers are forced to reduce weight in other ways.
"Automobile manufacturers are turning to more expensive lightweight materials like aluminum
to compensate for the added weight involved with the electric hybrid approach," said Tsao.
"With an air hybrid you don't have to worry about that."
Thanks to Tsao's innovative valve design, the air hybrid can achieve similar fuel efficiencies
but needs only an air storage unit weighing no more than 30 kilograms.
Because it does not need a second propulsion system,
the air hybrid model, bottom, is less complex than the electric hybrid model, top.
"The air hybrid does not require a second propulsion system," said Tsao.
"This approach allows for significant improvements in fuel economy without the added complexity of the electric hybrid model."
The UCLA researchers avoid the need for an additional motor by introducing greater functionality into the engine's valve system.
During conventional combustion engine operation, the camshaft causes the intake and exhaust valves to open and close
in a synchronized fashion to let in air and fuel and to let out exhaust.
The camshaft is designed to perform in a predictable and fixed way.
The same operation occurs over and over -- nothing more.
Tsao's industrial collaborators designed an electrohydraulic camless valvetrain system
that allows for more variable valve operation, with greater control over when a valve opens and for how long.
Tsao developed methods to precisely control the valve operation over a wide temperature range.
This, in turn, makes it possible for the traditional engine to do more than just burn fuel.
"We wanted the engine to compress air and charge the compressed air back to the engine," said Tsao.
"So we replaced the cam shaft with an electronically-controlled valve system."
Tsao's proposed valve system allows the engine to operate in four different modes.
When a vehicle decelerates, the engine is used as an air compressor to absorb the braking energy and store it into the air tank.
Whenever the vehicle stops, at a red light for example, the engine is shut down.
Once the light turns green and the driver touches the accelerator pedal, the engine is started by compressed air.
As the car speeds up, the engine is used as an air motor to drive the vehicle until the compressed air is depleted,
at which point the engine is switched to conventional combustion mode and begins burning fuel.
The concept of driving a vehicle with compressed air is not new.
In fact, a compact version of an air-powered car was introduced at the Paris Auto Show in late 2002.
That car had a four-cylinder piston engine powered only by compressed air that is stored in an on-board air tank.
Road tests are needed to prove Tsao's concept, and other challenges need to be addressed
before air hybrid vehicles become widely accepted.
"We want to optimize the size of the air storage tank, and begin testing the air hybrid operation using a diesel engine," said Tsao.
As consumer demand grows for more environmentally friendly road vehicles, drivers may one day find themselves riding on air.
Chris Sutton 07/21/03
***************************************
Opponents to air car and other alternatives miss the point when ignoring our fundamental human society problem :
We use to much energy and power ! ...from the Quasiturbine researchers team 04.09.01
One day, once we will accept (or be forced to accept) to use much less energy and power,
Internal combustion 1/2 HP engine will still be one of the solution,
as well as electric batteries, air car, Stirling, solar, nuclear pellets, coil springs or twist rubber band,
gravity energy storage, human power, etc.
Researches are also about to give solutions to future context.
There will be room for all sorts of solutions.
Hopefully, outrageous human energy waste will not be for ever...
Instead of blaming alternative energy solutions for their weakness, fight the present non sense energy opulence...
and talk about the weakness of our underground crude oil parasitic society.
Accept that some visionary peoples try even now to oppose menu alternatives to the 300 HP gas piston engines !
Let's keep innovating and give them our encouragements, don’t play the establishment game...
Petrol is a net energy source only to those who think it is OK to still pump petrol from the planet underground reserve.
Based on long term, petrol products are not energy sources, but energy carriers just like the hydrogen or the synthetic fuel.
The difference is only that it stores energy from another era !
The establishment and government (and many others) like you to think that it is Ok and correct
to express the efficiency form "well to wheel".
This is very wrong and incomplete, because it implicitly means that you start efficiency calculations from an existing product,
and after it has been stolen from the underground (foreign) reserve.
Once the human will have to make its synthetic fuel from honest planet surface energy transformation activities,
he will soon discover that compressing and expanding air is as efficient as and less complicated
than making synthetic fuel for its mobile applications, and that the size and weight of the air reservoir
is quite convenient compared to a mini synthetic fuel plant !
In overall complete scenario, planet surface human made fuel is not providing good efficiencies,
and in no way in the 10 % range. So please be fair to alternatives...
Many are disappointed that air car promoters do not tell the truth straight and complete.
But who does ? Not the car industry, not the battery makers, not the hydrogen investors, not the nuclear enthusiasts,
not the solar or windmill fans... Not even probably the Quasiturbine team ?
When a country produces too many experts in efficiency,
it does induce an efficiency deficiency population attitude, which favours efficiency concept like :
Let others do it! Steal it from others! Let's wait and see!
Being too efficient can mean doing little innovation... That's probably the way
I am not saying this is not natural to be lazy, since the food chain (from which the human is part)
makes extensive use of those principles :
Wait and let the fish hunt : cook it when it becomes larger !
...But sometimes, others catch the fish, and you are left with little free lunch ?
Quasiturbine team is not in conflict of interest on this matter
because even if the Quasiturbine could be a good substitution for the 300 HP internal combustion car engine market,
the Quasiturbine is as well a good solar steam engine, an efficient power modulated air motor,
an efficient Stirling cogeneration engine, and the best engine for hybrid vehicle onboard generators
or extremely efficient photo-detonation engine... Quasiturbine win (or lose) on all sides !
Remember, petrol is a precious feed stock available for material transformation,
of which the energy applications are often the worst non recyclable uses.
Remember our fundamental human society problem : We use to much energy and power.
Let's save some ! ...and give-up about the stolen underground fuel efficiency 30% bias reference...
1)
Compressing a gas produces both pressure and heat.
Excellent reversibility can be achieve if one keeps both the pressure and the heat stored together.
However, heat can be removed from the gas by cooling it
(a necessity if multi-stage higher pressure is desired, and sometime heat can be usefully dispatch),
and heat can be given back later, sometime from a free heat sink (ambient) during relaxation,
to still produce a fairly good reversibility.
For short term uses, it may be beneficial to store both the pressure (moderate) and the associated heat.
2)
Storing both the pressure (moderate) with its associated heat could be appropriate
for example in the case of mining pneumatic locomotive or city subway,
where the pneumatic wagon could be refill every few hours, not to say partly refill from the braking energy recovery.
Pneumatic remove the high voltage subway hazard,
and allow better conditioning the air purity by releasing dry air, which is most suitable to reduce subway moisture.
Depending of the voluntary heat lost on the ground processing pressure plant,
subway gas relaxation could further cool down the ambient air, a great advantage on summer !
3)
When a gas at room temperature expands, it produces energy in two forms : pressure work and cooling,
which energies add up to quite an excellent reversibility.
Most people ignore or discard the powerful adiabatic cooling,
but it could be of direct interest, like in conditioning the subway air.
What is nice about expanding compressed gas is that the cooling adiabatic energy
can be converted into mechanical work providing some heat can be given
to the gas during relaxation (almost magic conversion !).
If this heat can come from a free ambient heat sink,
then the isothermal expansion acts locally as a sort of mechanical energy amplifier,
while total energy is conserved considering earlier compression.
If added heat is coming from the system (boiler...),
then, isothermal expansion is a good way to increase the specific power density of the machine,
but does not provide a net additional energy output !
4)
But keeping the heat (higher temperature) in an air tank reduces it energy capacity ?
This would insure a good reversibility all the time,
but of course the isothermal mechanical amplification will not be as easy (impossible with ambient heat),
which would in fact reduce the local mechanical work done by the same reservoir capacity.
If higher level heat is still apply to the gas relaxation,
then the same mechanical work could be extracted (but with some residual heat lost at exhaust).
5)
The energy density comparison are distorted unfairly (by ignorance)
by those who keep stating that gasoline contains 9000 w-h/liter.
The truth is that to get such an amount of energy from a full car tank of gasoline,
one need to have about 2 tons of oxygen !
Lets assume you carry onboard the needed oxygen,
then your real power density (in weight and volume) will fall to what they call ridicule low level...
Not only do we steal the petrol product from our underground reserve,
but our vehicle further steal the air while underway from our atmosphere.
Should we oppose petrol unfair results to the alternative energy solutions !
This is of course not a fair way to describe the true reality...
Similarly, we should stop referring to IC engine peak 30 % efficiency which is far from average in use engine efficiency,
where most vehicle hardly reach 9 % efficiency form fuel to wheel (which is in the range of many interesting alternatives).
6)
Within a compressor in adiabatic process, pressure increases for 2 reasons :
because of volume reduction and because of temperature increase.
Since the temperature is keep constant in isothermal process, the pressure does not increase as much,
and the work done by the compressor on the gas is much less.
Said otherwise, the total amount of heat continuously removed during the isothermal compression is less than
the heat accumulated at the end of an adiabatic compression.
An other important difference is that while adiabatic compression
produces valuable high temperature grade heat suitable for Stirling recovery (coming from extra compressor work),
isothermal compression produces worthless low grade heat unfit for any heat recovery.
Consequently, it is not possible to extract mechanical energy from ambient heat,
conform to Carnot principle that 2 different temperature sinks (heat flow) are needed to do so !
However, both compression-relaxation cycles, either isothermal (continuous instantaneous heat removal)
or adiabatic (assuming no heat lost) are equally highly reversible.
Furthermore, if someone leaves you the choice between say,
a 100 degrees delta T over the ambient temperature and the same 100 degrees delta T under the ambient temperature,
which one would you preferred in term of mechanical energy conversion efficiency ?
Not only Carnot tell us the limit of thermal to mechanical efficiency is proportional to delta T,
but he also state that for a given delta T, this conversion efficiency decreases with increase of the temperature zone.
This is why liquid nitrogen evaporation and thermalisation to drive an air motor can provide higher conversion efficiency
than higher temperature large delta T of hot steam .
7)
Energy alternatives are apparently loosing against unfair petroleum pumping
and free atmospheric air oxidation, so is the planet loosing.
It is always easier for someone to make a good living out of stolen money, than out of it honest earning,
until such a time that he imprisons himself...
This is what we are all doing by using underground petroleum.
*********************************************
Heat pumps are heat movers.
If someone mixed-up the heat he moves with the machine input energy,
he gets a useful artificial over unity efficiency that no one seem to contest!
Mechanically speaking, heat pumps compressors and air motors are identical and complementary,
and over unity are motor is unfortunately not possible, notwithstanding the artificial over unity compressor.
Here is why it is not mechanically possible :
The environment offer one single heat sink T(0) which an heat pump compressor can split in two T(-) and T(+)
with an over unity efficiency (?).
Now, let an extremely efficient Stirling engine makes work from those two heat sinks,
and cash in the over unity heat pump efficiency ?
Unfortunately, Carnot will allow the pair of heat sink to cancel out at environment T(0)
and give out no more mechanical energy than the heat pump got in the first place...
At most, you get good reversibility, but no gain.
Carnot allows over unity heat pumps but takes back all profits later !
Getting net mechanical energy out of one sink is not possible, never mind the constraints,
but making use of the free heat (trucked cycle) is.
A comment about EXERGY
Because it does favour thermodynamically matching energy sources with energy needs and applications,
all exergy considerations strongly support the development of a multitude of energy alternative technologies.
The 9000 W-h/l (gasoline) unique universal energy source provide poor thermodynamically matches
with most energy needs and applications...
and only a large variety of technologies are going to provide an optimum exergy world !
It is worthless to develop alternative energy technologies with the objective to match comparisons
with stolen underground petroleum and stolen atmospheric oxygen.
No one is doing it to sustain SUBs !
We show interest in alternative energy to give more long term sense to the live on our planet,
and to preserve it and humanity for an other million years...
Anyway, we will be force to do so soon, so why not now ? ... Who is against planning phasing out and in ?
*********************************************
Air motor power can be increased if heat is given to the air to further increase its volume
and strongly reverse the nefast adiabatic cooling, providing the air motor can accept this kind of hot air ?
I just want to recall that this was exactly the idea of Joule (also Brayton)
when they designed their cycle of turboshaft jet engine !
The best way to add heat to air between the compressor or the storage air tank
and the air motor is to inject the fuel into that same air flow and burn it in-situ.
To accept that hot air/gas flow, conventional hot turbines have been developed,
and similarly, Quasiturbine hot air motor could be developed as well...
with efficiency and power modulation advantages over conventional hot turbines.
Turbo-shaft jet engine are noting else than large heated air motors carrying their own compressor !
See : http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTAviation.html
One of the most efficient and high specific power engines of all time !
Notice however that ambient temperature air storage competes against 1/10 of the gasoline 9000 kW-h/l,
because even if optimum IC engine exceeds 30 % efficiency,
the average efficiency from gas tank to wheels in actual vehicle use barely reaches 9 % !
*********************************************
PROJECTS IN PERSPECTIVE ?
Quasiturbine Pneumatic and Fuel cell :
A perfect Match (using liquid nitrogen) !
See : http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTPileCombustible.html
A Thermo-Pneumatic Quasiturbine Locomotive
(with addendum on subway operation)
See : http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTPneuLocoValen030908.html
THERMO-PNEUMATIC NITROGEN CONCEPT
A project intended to make a demonstration liquid nitrogen motorcycle
is in planning at the Cegep de Rimouski, Québec (projet temporairement ? suspendu au printemps 2002)
Concours Force Avenir http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTRimous0203.html
Quasiturbine pneumatic-steam model QT50SC (Without carriage)
Usable with intake sustained pressure as low as 20 to 50 psi!
REFERENCES
L'APUQ are doing go-kart Quasiturbine integration work with the Quasiturbine QT75SC pneumatic.
www.pureinvention.com/apuq
MDI - Miguel Celades Rex info@theaircar.com
MDI Official representative for
http://www.theaircar.com (English) http://www.motordeaire.com (Español) http://www.motormdi.com (Português)
The Korean inventor energine has developed an electric & pneumatic hybrid car.
http://energine.com/eng/engine/engine1.htm
UCLA Study Suggests Air Hybrid Car Could Improve Fuel Efficiency
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001552.html
http://www.engineer.ucla.edu/stories/2003/hybrid.htm
http://www.engineer.ucla.edu/stories/2003/hybrid.htm
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)